Ratto & Baggs make Bonds' Hall of Fame case
Ray Ratto and Andrew Baggarly are not surprised Bonds was not elected into Hall of Fame.
Comcast sports that special the hall of fame discussion along with Andrew bad -- our baseball insider mark Carter from behind me 57 with Dave and of course. Ray -- all three of these gentlemen get to vote my first thing for you -- were you surprised. That no one got him. Not at all ray and I were were watching the results be announced and I was thinking 33% may -- for bonds and and he got 36% so I think by price is right rules like I come close to winning both showcase his -- -- that are I just think there's there's too much polarization are a lot of people who don't know what to do with bonds and there might be some people who wanna be punitive. With this first ballot and maybe you'll vote for him in the future but. I don't know if it's gonna make a big impact may be negated eventually you only 5% stay on the ballot but clearly a lot of people need more time with Barry Bonds or steal that he doesn't want them all the same -- -- -- -- have the most by the way it's 68%. And we discussed it before he said he would be the one who was closest. Part mark were you surprised bonds didn't get and then end and by the way Clemens and get -- themselves and any of these people associated with that steroid era and always get them right no no not surprise and I think it's it's sort of reflective of its a toxic here for the ballot. I'm I'm a little surprised frankly -- that he pulled the the numbers he did -- I might go as high as 45% bonds is a guy. Who I think you'll see a bunch of voters. Have decided to withhold their first year ballot I think bonds is a guy who could jump from where he is into the high forties to low fifties -- in the mid fifties. In one year so I think this conversation is really only beginning with regards a hall of fame and you know most of the easier for them break the all time home run leader and baseball's all time hit leader not the -- -- the second the -- It's gonna change for bonds eventually it is can you voted for by the way you without hesitation. Because I think they did the whole steroid argument is a red area. The fact is baseball tolerated this and they tolerate it. PED use going back to amphetamines. And they only really start to worry about it 2005 when the government got involved. Up until that point they were fine -- all of it and they all cashed in on it so to me it's it's a disingenuous argument. As for. The rest of it. The the interesting thing today was not who -- we didn't get in I think most people figured nobody was going again. The question was percentages. I -- bonds came in little low. I thought that Clemens getting a few more votes than bonds made no sense. Why would you vote for Clemens and not bonds right or vice Versa for bonds and Clemens so there's a lot about. Nobody getting in it is still fascinating to me because the numbers inside the numbers are out the -- that. Mark did you vote for months no I did not I past only when both pitchers for Biggio okay is the clear cut no argument hall of Famer. I'm bonds is a guy and I'll be honest I'm am a hard time ever voting for. -- as much as I -- and understand the position in -- one of many many many people feel that to me it's. The farthest thing from -- that entire argument -- talk about the most worked. Era. Statistics in baseball history and it goes back to. The blatant use in the blatant cheating by guys who clearly knew what they were doing was giving them an edge beyond anything including green he's ever -- any player -- And this is an area unlike any other which is why you have -- idea -- why I was gonna say right to your argument. Yet baseball brought this on themselves they certainly kind of enforce a better. What does that do for a guy like Craig Robinson who had so many home runs without the use of this and Barry Bonds did it with the -- so I mean you're comparing people that have helped and the people that did not have. But. Extend that even further back let's let's say. The take Ty Cobb -- never played in an era in which anybody -- wasn't -- got to play so the hall of fame argument is flawed from the star. It's this is already that it's already a warped position. And everything about baseball is colored by all the goofy things. That they've done such a hall of fame as a hot mess it's always gonna be one. So this is just another hot mess is all it is to me but -- the country not being segregated. And therefore they're being racism and not being able to compete against black players the same as players. Taking drugs to -- -- worse it's infinitely when the color line was far worst baseball. Then PDs by a wide margin. And I don't know anybody can make. Via the other argument. So if the color line is OK with all thing I don't understand. How PED use this because it's not. Often it's not church. It's the history of the game warped straight and otherwise. And so. I think this is something that baseball's got to -- look you guys look the other way on all this stuff. So now you live with the price of that and the price that is your hall of fame is devalued for the clean guys with the dirty guys for the guys. Andrew you voted for Barry Bonds -- -- did because I thought that he's one of the greatest players ever played a game in terms of -- skill set to and when you enhanced it obviously became totally cartoonish and you know for me ain't cheating you never won a reward somebody -- cheating but I do think we have to step back and look at what baseball. He is -- the culture of. The game is just an excuse someone for cheating is a reason they did all this stuff in private behind closed doors ever talked about it. But players always looking to get an edge and I think a lot of hall of famers who played the fifties and sixties would have taken steroids -- guys are on record saying. They were done and Mike Schmidt Bob Gibson among others. And it's almost like why do you put these guys at fault so what Barry Bonds Mark McGwire. When their stuff just worked exponentially better than the stuff that was available in the fifties and sixties is still cheating guys have been looking to load up the baseball steal signs. Get any -- they can. And can here's the thing that's interesting -- -- Mike Piazza who I thought was for sure a first ballot hall of fame when I was playing. And he doesn't get in today. Now is it because he had pimples on his back in the end and you just have a paper trail the way the -- does so how do you deal with that I mean there's so many tentacles to the same axis of typical. To sort through as a voter. Let's look at the actual voting to which it was released today at 11 o'clock. -- time and you see Biggio -- it was 68 point 2%. My question for you badgers wouldn't is part of the reason you vote for bonds because it would give -- a hall of Famer without the use. I think that's I think that's part part of your argument. I think that I think that his talent level makes him one of the top five players in the game ever to play the game regardless of if he hadn't touched. And -- either injected anything now you know that's unscientific obviously but. You know I was there watch him every day -- and it was super -- what you was doing even. Knowing that it was wrapped up a certain percentage of the steroid use and you can't really quantify. You know how much steroids enhanced his game but it's obvious that made huge impact but he's just one of the most talented players in baseball history. Marquis said you'd probably have trouble ever voting form yet here he's gonna come up again and again on the ballot because you just it's 5% to do that there's obviously a lot of people that feel the way -- us. Do you think his numbers are gonna jump as he continues to stay on these ballot I absolutely do yeah because I think that what you sign in one thing that's. Pins were revelatory about last year's hall of fame voting is with. Twitter in particular it so much easier now to have writers explain exactly what to do a lot of doing and one of the things that you've heard time and time again this. Several writers have said not on the first ballot. That's never been a distinction I've ever man I think it's had an absurd point of view but. There's certain percentage writers and got to remember like everywhere there is on the line -- -- -- on the first ballot my second time a lot of remember that that you know the hall of fame voting theoretically never -- so once you're you know bags is in as a hall of fame voter theoretically until either he gets the ball back passes on. So yes -- -- not generations of voters including several and and there was a time. Even a generation or two ago where very few writers gave anyone a first ballot distinction they consider that. Almost like graduating with honors and I won't do you know Cherilus in the first -- -- -- now a lot wasn't present. Bags and so now you get to a situation where. You you'll have a lot of writers say this is my this is my punitive measure for you bonds and could be 404 Clemens and several others. That you can throw in that category too. That there are several voters who then we'll come back next here and say okay my work here is done now clearly you should you belong in the office.